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2005 top ten
2005 top ten
Do people join the KDGA to support disc golf in Kansas or do they join for the points race????????? Would it make a difference on players joining the KDGA if the number of tournaments that counted for the points was dropped from 15 to 10 tournaments. I think this number would be easier for people to reach with everybody's busy schedules and the expense of travel. This is just an idea. What are your thoughts?
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Schoen-hopper
- Posts: 6301
- Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2004 12:58 pm
I'm sure there will be some different viewpoints on this one. I think that 15 is the perfect number. It is just over half of our total tournaments.
My reason is that just after the first half of the year, their will probably be 10 or more people in each division with 10 tournaments already. If the results for those players with 10 already are pretty good, there may not be a chance for those that are out of the top ten to catch up, espescially if the tourney attendance goes down in the second half of the year. With 15 tournaments there is certainly more low score gaps to fill in that give the player that is just out of range a chance to catch up. In one respect dropping the counting tourney number would bring the scores closer together, but once they were topped out at 10 apiece, the changes in the ranks would be minimal.
I don't know if we'd get any more members by changing the tourney total to 10. I think it could potentially drop tournament attendance, espescially in the second half of the year. Since the difference in attending or not would be so small and might not make a difference in the standings, players might choose not to attend. Another thing that might happen is that players would only attend the "supertour" events and the others would have a minimal turnout (even lower than now).
Another thing I'd like to mention is bringing back the attendance point. We used to get 1 point for tournament attendance that was added to your 1 point for every player you beat or tie. This point could not be erased even if your total exceeded 15. There should be some benefit for those players who drive a long way all year to play in a lot of tourneys. Sure, we don't want to make it to where the most tourneys played, wins. But, that's not the way it is right now.
My reason is that just after the first half of the year, their will probably be 10 or more people in each division with 10 tournaments already. If the results for those players with 10 already are pretty good, there may not be a chance for those that are out of the top ten to catch up, espescially if the tourney attendance goes down in the second half of the year. With 15 tournaments there is certainly more low score gaps to fill in that give the player that is just out of range a chance to catch up. In one respect dropping the counting tourney number would bring the scores closer together, but once they were topped out at 10 apiece, the changes in the ranks would be minimal.
I don't know if we'd get any more members by changing the tourney total to 10. I think it could potentially drop tournament attendance, espescially in the second half of the year. Since the difference in attending or not would be so small and might not make a difference in the standings, players might choose not to attend. Another thing that might happen is that players would only attend the "supertour" events and the others would have a minimal turnout (even lower than now).
Another thing I'd like to mention is bringing back the attendance point. We used to get 1 point for tournament attendance that was added to your 1 point for every player you beat or tie. This point could not be erased even if your total exceeded 15. There should be some benefit for those players who drive a long way all year to play in a lot of tourneys. Sure, we don't want to make it to where the most tourneys played, wins. But, that's not the way it is right now.
I definitely think 15 is better than 10. Matter of fact, I have heard people want to bump it to 18 or 20 even. I think 15 is about right on the money, and we certainly shouldn't go lower.
Not to mention we are going to be adding more tournaments to the schedule this year, which makes even a stronger case for 15 or more. I think Mike is right.. attendance would drop towards the end of the year when so many people make their 10.
This past year I don't know how many times I heard people say "I wasn't going to go to so and so tournament, but I need to get another point total in the books". Some people do care about points.... we would not have seen Babbit at several of the last tournaments had the total been 10 (he is just one of many examples).
Jon
Not to mention we are going to be adding more tournaments to the schedule this year, which makes even a stronger case for 15 or more. I think Mike is right.. attendance would drop towards the end of the year when so many people make their 10.
This past year I don't know how many times I heard people say "I wasn't going to go to so and so tournament, but I need to get another point total in the books". Some people do care about points.... we would not have seen Babbit at several of the last tournaments had the total been 10 (he is just one of many examples).
Jon
I am not sure if I am for or against it yet. I am just throwing out ideas that have been sugested to me.
One of the things that has been said to me is players have said to me is they have not joined the KDGA because 15 tournaments is to many to go to, to have a chance at the top ten.
I have thought about what Mike said that some tournaments would suffer. Possibily. If the KDGA memebership was increased than would tournament attendance increase???
If only 10 tournaments would tighten up the points race then a good tournament could sling shot someone infront or in the top ten because the points are so close even if it was not a large event, so it would be more critical to go to the end of year events.
Just some thoughts.
One of the things that has been said to me is players have said to me is they have not joined the KDGA because 15 tournaments is to many to go to, to have a chance at the top ten.
I have thought about what Mike said that some tournaments would suffer. Possibily. If the KDGA memebership was increased than would tournament attendance increase???
If only 10 tournaments would tighten up the points race then a good tournament could sling shot someone infront or in the top ten because the points are so close even if it was not a large event, so it would be more critical to go to the end of year events.
Just some thoughts.
I think the people that are not playing in the KDGA would play if they knew they only had to go to 10 tourneys to qualify. So you would get a much larger response. I also don’t think people are going to stop going to tourneys. Let’s use my season last year as an example, and let’s say I only count my first ten tourneys. As the season continues, I would be thinking I could do much better. I want to add to my point total by bettering my first ten. That is always possible, unless you win every one, and most likely you had some poor showings along the way. You could also throw in some bonus points if need be, since those count regardless of the # of tourneys you have gone to and would boost attendance. I think #1 priority is to get people into the KDGA. Let’s make it realistic for them. 15 tourneys are a long haul. 10 are too, but they are doable.
Just my 2 cents…
Just my 2 cents…
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Brian Shields
- Posts: 32
- Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 9:40 pm
I think that the number really makes no differance 10 or 15 if a person like ron ,kevin or eric play they are good enough to score alot of points no matter how many tourneys they go to, the ones that use the extra tournaments are the good one day shakey on the next players like I am.. What is the question is with all the new tournaments being scheduled people will have to pick and choose which one they want to go to...which means in the long run smaller turnouts to the smaller tournaments, so if a person wants to score points they have to go to the biggest tournaments with the best turnouts,,,The Rock, FRIZ, DooDah,Herington, Hays, Emporia and hope they do good, then fit in the ones they can make after that, why have a limit anyway if a person is that dedicated to playing disc golf why penalize that person with a limit every member of the KDGA has the same opportunity to play in as many tourneys as they want if a person wants in the top ten either they had better be good or had better just play alot forget the limit and just play
I'll drop in a new idea.
Going to 15 tournaments can be quite expensive when the tourney's start getting farther and farther away. In my case this is the first quarter of the tour. 10 tourneys could help alleviate that.
Going to 15 tournaments can be quite expensive when the tourney's start getting farther and farther away. In my case this is the first quarter of the tour. 10 tourneys could help alleviate that.
This makes complete and total sense. I back this argument 'til I hear a better one.MaceMan Spit out this garbage: wrote:
If only 10 tournaments would tighten up the points race then a good tournament could sling shot someone infront or in the top ten because the points are so close even if it was not a large event, so it would be more critical to go to the end of year events.
I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times.
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Notorious ROG
- Posts: 206
- Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2004 8:53 am
- Location: OKC or WIC depends on day of week
KDGA KT & OZ events
The KDGA should steal a page from PDGA have different tiers for events.
Let's pick the big 15 events to be our KT (Kansas Tour) events and use each players best 10 events for points to pick our top 10 points winners for the KT skins. These should be spread equally throughout the State.
Then use all Oz Tour events (not just 15) for division champs & trophies at year end Banquet.
This will encourage EAST WEST SOUTH &NORTH to try to make 10 of the top 15 events of the KT. And encourage those looking for hardware to play as many events as they can.........
Let's pick the big 15 events to be our KT (Kansas Tour) events and use each players best 10 events for points to pick our top 10 points winners for the KT skins. These should be spread equally throughout the State.
Then use all Oz Tour events (not just 15) for division champs & trophies at year end Banquet.
This will encourage EAST WEST SOUTH &NORTH to try to make 10 of the top 15 events of the KT. And encourage those looking for hardware to play as many events as they can.........
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Schoen-hopper
- Posts: 6301
- Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2004 12:58 pm
By reducing the number of tourneys the top ten would indeed reflect the players with the most skill. But it would not give nearly as much opportunity for those who earn their way in by playing a few more tournaments than the rest.
For example, if the same 10 pro players finish in the top 10 in the 10 biggest tournaments of the year..... The other players could win all 15 of the other events and it wouldn't matter, because there would not be as many points available because of lower attendance.
If it started catching on to the players who already have attended 10 tournaments, but who are out of the top ten, that attending more and improving there score wouldn't be nearly significant enough to bring them up to the top 10, they might start attending less, and feel like the situation is hopeless for them.
Bottom line is that reducing the number of tourneys (though closing up the point totals in general) will offer LESS opportunity for less skilled players to make a move. I think that since the players will see numerically that the point difference is less, they might not realize that they will have to place very well at several major tournaments to get in.
For example, if the same 10 pro players finish in the top 10 in the 10 biggest tournaments of the year..... The other players could win all 15 of the other events and it wouldn't matter, because there would not be as many points available because of lower attendance.
If it started catching on to the players who already have attended 10 tournaments, but who are out of the top ten, that attending more and improving there score wouldn't be nearly significant enough to bring them up to the top 10, they might start attending less, and feel like the situation is hopeless for them.
Bottom line is that reducing the number of tourneys (though closing up the point totals in general) will offer LESS opportunity for less skilled players to make a move. I think that since the players will see numerically that the point difference is less, they might not realize that they will have to place very well at several major tournaments to get in.
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Master Dyck
- Posts: 259
- Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2004 9:14 pm
- Location: Moundridge, KS
I'm going to make an unpopular comment here.......What about making every tournament count.....wouldn't that get the highest possible turnout that we are all looking for?.....This year I would've won the Masters division but because I had to throw out 5-6 tournament scores....I lost to Harv.....(Please....nothing against Harv.....he is a great opponent and a good friend)....but I did put more effort to go to more tournaments than he did and shouldn't I be rewarded somehow for attending more tournaments than the winner.....To me that's not fair....Don't get me wrong....I go to tournaments to have a good time but I also want my good times to be rewarded...and I think most everyone would feel the same way.....What about the not-so-good player that goes to every single tournament and still comes in 10th or maybe worse.....but if we would reward him for going to every tournament by giving him the points he deserves, he might easily win the division......At the least we should honor anyone who attends every event with a spot on the championship roster....he/she put in the most time....the most money, the most miles and the most support to Kansas disc golf.....In my oppinion....if we want this sport to grow here in Kansas....we should give a strong incentive to everyone to join.....who knows that a brand new open player may have a shot to play with the big dogs in the championships just because he's the most determined to go to every tournament.....on the other hand the best player only goes to 10 tournaments only because he knows that he's a shoo-in for the championships.....What a wuss in my book.....He's not out there to have fun at all....in my opinion, all he's in it is for the money and the fame....Make the best players earn the win by forcing them to come to every tournament.........Okay, there you have it.....may the yelling commence!!!!!!!!!
If we want a contest, and the contest winners get to play skins, then lets do that. If we want the best players to be in the skins match or in the KDGA, then lets limit the qualifying events to ten or at most 15. Some of the top pros don't have time to make it to 15 of the KDGA events. Lets get them in! Some of the other players that are on the verge of joining, might do so with fewer events (I don't know if you have noticed, but money is tight). Ten events costs at least $400.00, plus equipment, food, gas, food, motels, and don't forget, food (I eat a lot 
). Even though Michael has some good points, I still think we want the best players in, and the majority of the players in.
Rodney has a good point too. Lets give something to the people that show up to the most events, but that should not effect skins.
Ten, IMHO, is the way to go!
). Even though Michael has some good points, I still think we want the best players in, and the majority of the players in. Rodney has a good point too. Lets give something to the people that show up to the most events, but that should not effect skins.
Ten, IMHO, is the way to go!
Dyck, I agree with you in a simpathetic way a little, but is it really fair to to the player that puts in the time, everyday, everynight, practicing this great game, to try to equal out the standings? I think the tougher you make the rules the better the competition you will have for all. And when us Kansas boys go to such tournies as a Super or National Tour, we would be better competition for other states. If we try to equal the field out, you will have a atmosphere like nascar, every car is the same, all are equal in speed and times, even though racer A has put in his whole life to be the best he can be at this paticular sport. While racer B, puts in his ten minutes for the day, knowing the rules will equal out his lack of preparation and committment. To equal out these things out, they have different divisions. Thats what keeps it fair, not by who shows up more.