Page 3 of 4

Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 7:58 pm
by gippy
some good advice here. Definately have to stay focused positive and play with in your capablities. IE: i can drive 425+ or so my friend do to a bad motorcycle crash can only drive 275 but straight as an arrow. He'll watch me drive and try to match it,when even on a good day he can't, then he F#$@S up. He can beat me if he dosen't try to match my distance. So play YOUR game and stay positive. See so many people in tourneys here get down on them selfs cuz they missed that 55 foot putt and their game is done,when in realality they don't make 55ftrs and should have let it go. But it follows them to the next hole and so on..............

Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 8:29 pm
by Ruder
Thanks for the extra advice Ron!

Just picked up a z-wasp today from Downtown. Been tinkering with this a bit. I'm definately excited to see how this season will turn out. Will be kinda slow until school gets out.

Posted: Wed May 02, 2007 9:30 pm
by ronconversjr
It`s been a while since you inspired me .Hopefully the game is coming along?Update time.Which changes have you made in your game,and what differences have they made in retrospect?The information you got from trial and error could help someone else 8)

Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 3:56 am
by Ruder
Update: Fixing the kinks in my game.

I've found my biggest weakness lies in my physical game. I get tired/strained physically long before I do mentally. So it gets rough when I know exactly what I want to do in my head but end up executing poorly. Poor execution leads to having to play ultra conservative just to maintain ANY position on the field. I've been working on some endurance and pre round routine to stay loose and energized throughout 2-3 rounds. I've had some success but it is a matter of sticking to the regimen.

!When executing well! I have added a z-wasp into the bag and I really like it. I have gotten to the point of trusting it and knowing its limits which makes for some really good rounds. I have also AGAIN put the z-hawk back in my bag. This disc really is a miracle worker for me and you may not believe it unless you could see it in play. It's slow flight is in correlation with throwing a stable disc. A stable disc is really predictable and so is a slow flying saucer. I don't know how many times where I would think it would overthrow my shot only to find it 20 feet past my target. As opposed to a buzzz, a much faster midrange, that shot would be 30 - 35 past. 5 feet can be a lot when it comes down to it. It can be the difference of worrying about a putt or just tossing it in. Biggest mechanical change in my game has to do with my midranges. I've switched to gripping them with a power grip instead of pinch grip. It was a much faster switch than I anticipated and has been very successful. It's actually added more accuracy due to a better anticipation of the snap (spin) that my disc initially has. Makes that wasp real predictable and I can better know exactly how much I can/need to turn it over. No more early releases.

As far as my previous post, I go for/run at a lot of shots when I have a putter in my hand. Many times you wouldn't know I was running at a shot because it looks like I was laying up. But this is my game and may not work for everyone. I have developed my approach game with specific intentions of having a chance to throw my disc in from anywhere inside 100. All of the time I have spent developing my approach/putt has been to give it the best chances with the shortest comeback. Whether it be uphill/downhill tailwind/headwind, the putt/approach is modified to have its best odds without going far if I miss. Which leads to a point to make.

You are in position. You are not ahead, you are not behind, but something needs to be done soon. You may not want it, but you are forced to decide - do you go for it or do you purposely lay up and not even give yourself a CHANCE. I say give it a chance! All you have to ask yourself is. Do I weigh more heavily on a weigh shift, or rely more on my arm speed to hold the shot. Do I loft it up with little spin or do throw it lower and put a pop on it. Nose up or nose down? Jump put or lob it? There is a million ways to throw a frisbee. You don't have to know them all, but once you control the variable instead of them controlling you - then you are in control of your own destiny. Once you can manipulate the flight characteristics, the correct choice becomes instinct.

Just my philosophy

Posted: Sat May 05, 2007 1:03 am
by ronconversjr
Tell me again why you need a hawk when you are running with a putter at 100ft.Can`t you throw a stable putter as far and as straight as the hawk?the putter might be slightly slower than a hawk ,but not much.Is it the way that hawk holds an anhyzer?the point you made concerning disc speed is valid ,it is nice to only be 20 past after a run at the basket.the hawk just does not seem to fit the bill, after all I recall when it was Downtown Randy Brown`s favorite driver! :D I do like the way it holds the angle you put on it.. when it`s still or down wind! No seriously ,I played with a hawk for several years.It just seemed that other discs filled the job it was doing for me ..only better.Of course, the hawk is a great all around disc if I only used 1 disc(I don`t mean it as harsh as it sounds)There are a wide variety of slow mids and/or putters which might suit your throw better for specific
conditions,while improving the overall average results.Try an overstable putter as you would the wasp .The putter gives the best speed to actually "run" at a hole without going to far for a comeback putt.If you are so far out that you can`t put a putter there,the odds of achieving any meaningfull gain by running at it go way down.If you have a 1in 20 chance of making it and 4 in 20 chance of extra strokes if you run at it ,the math says it all.At some point, being under the basket with a sure next putt becomes very desireable.With the trend towards holes that can only be reached in three shots by really skilled players ,the odds of the 250-300ft approach are becoming much greater.Aces at 250-300ft happen frequently but not as frequently as blowing by and having to sweat a long or tricky putt.The pressure to make a "clutch" putt goes away with good course management( in these situations!).I have found that I am a deadly putter at 5 ft .Granted that we still have a lot of "duece or die" courses left to play ,even in this game a stroke is a stroke .I think to wrap it up,that 1.)using several approach discs for different conditions beats using just one(unless you are Crazy John Brooks)2.)Increasing the range that you can go for it without paying a penalty is one of the steps to improving score3.)more importantly stroke averages improve by knowing When not to attempt a putt4.) not having to make a huge putt by being close on the approach beats the 90 fter 3out of 4 times it`s just not as much fun.

5)about the hawk ,predictability rules in approach discs .Having to guess how much a disc will flip with the wind always seemed harder than turning it on the throw(while in your hands!)it`s sort of like the definition of elegant(old proverb) there are many ways to open a nut ,holding 2 in your hand and squeezing is elegant and works part of the time .Hitting it with a hammer is not elegant, but works every time...they don`t give points for elegance,just success .In other words get too fancy you might be HUNGRY!

Posted: Sat May 05, 2007 10:05 am
by Schoen-hopper
Good words, ancient wise one. :)

I don't know if this is Ruder's position, but here is what I think about running at long putts.

I try to give them a chance without running past. Most of the time, I play on the safe side and the disc isn't basket high as it runs by 0-20 feet. Sometimes I use a high annhyzer lob. Sometimes a low annhyzer flare. Sometimes a lot of spin, but not thrown hard. Sometimes a regular putt only higher and slower.

My odds of making it vs. 3 putting are still not quite in my favor. I like using these techniques because they give me a feel for different shots and how to play them safely. I know there are probably some other techniqes out there.

The low straight putt has the best percentage of going in. I just don't trust myself with it from longer out. Seems like that's what I hear Ron saying. Either go for it or lay up. My strategy is somewhere in between. That could be a strenth or a weakness. Maybe I just need to rather practice the "go for it" until I can get some trustable execution. Maybe the danger of the green would then determine wether to run low at it or use one of the "safe techniques".

Posted: Sat May 05, 2007 3:10 pm
by Ruder
I think my two paragraphs accidentally bled together.

I don't throw my hawk inside 100 feet. If I can throw a putter I will whenever feasible. I have had more success off the box with a hawk 275 - 330 over any other mid. It's never tooo far left or right or long or short. Therefore I have more chances for that putt to make or keep a stroke.

I like to put a lot of air under my discs. This doesn't always work well with, say, a buzzz. I liked the X2 for the same reason.

Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 2:17 am
by Ruder
Well, I'm sure most of you, since this is Kansas, have seen me drive. But anyways, I got ahold of a digitial video camera and made a tape. Hope to make a putting video within the week.

Here ya go.

I shot -7 right after this video, so I was pretty loose - it should be good.

Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 2:55 am
by Schoen-hopper
Throwing lefty now, eh? Those drives looked smooth.

Something I've been thinking about for getting distance is emphasizing follow through. That can be dangerous on certain teeing conditions such as those asphalt pads.

Beisner's mom was taking pictures of people driving at Pratt. I'm not sure what the function is called, but several quick pictures were taken. I think this is just as good as video. It freezes several parts of your throw. I'd like to see this done with some familiar players and compare/contrast the results.

Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 9:02 pm
by smitty
That lefty looks smooth. I think you are ready to bust that sucker out in tourney play.

How did you ever get three and a half minutes, on a perfect day in Hays?

I thought a motorcycle was going past on the first throw. Then BANG! That was sweet.

All in all, I think it looks good. I have alway thought your drive looked smooth and easy.

Compare it to some other peoples form and go from there. has tons of footage.

Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 8:43 pm
by ronconversjr
this thread is one of my favorites and answers a lot of the questions I get asked by folks working to improve their game .Start at the beginning and see if it works as a FAQ guide for you ! :D By the way, it should be noted that after all this posting concluded ,Tracy went on to play exceptionally well in Colorado.

Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 8:39 am
by Friz-Rocker
Spinning pizzas prepares you for disc-golf.

Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 5:22 pm
by Ruder
Chicken or the egg? Maybe disc golf prepares you to spin pizza's.

Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:39 pm
by Ruder
Well, let this thread be revived. With my poor performance at the GBO I have had a new fire lit and have a renewed passion for disc golf. I have been doing a lot of work on the the game and I believe my putting is twice as solid as it has ever been. There are a few things that need to be worked out still, but I am actually impressing myself.

What does everyone have to say about course management.

Throwing in wind AND elevation at the same time. What are some tricks and tendencies when throwing downhill/uphill into headwinds/tailwinds that you think people should know.

I noticed some of my discs getting slammed into the ground that I had never noticed when just throwing on level terrain, what are some things that cause this?

Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 12:29 am
by Schoen-hopper
When both wind AND elevation are in the mix, some crazy things can happen. Lots of subtle situations where a small change can in the throw can make a huge difference in the outcome.

On elevation, I think players often don't give enough credit to how the uphill or downhill will effect the flight. It puts it in perspective if you imagine what your proposed flight path would look like in relation to flat ground vs. the current situation.

For example, when you are throwing uphill, your disc fades left more. It's easier to throw it into the dirt, but if you throw it too high, it stalls and goes nowhere. It's easier to understand when you think of the ideal flight as compared to what it would look like in relation to flat ground. Then you see the real amount of attitude you need, or how high you are trying to throw it.

Even less realized, I think, is what throwing downhill does to a shot. It makes it turn over. If you want a fast & controlled shot, you should probably throw something more overstable. There are a lot of holes that are designed easier for righty that turning over can be the worst possible situation. You see a lot of shots turn over going downhill.

My thoughts on shots with elevation or with wind or both: In general, the shot should be low, or at least start low. A low shot is less effected by the wind. A low shot is generally straighter and more controlled. For upshots, a low shot can use the ground to stop in the right area. In this way, a stronger and more confident throw can be used rather than a "finesse" air shot that is more at the whim of the wind. The slower the disc is going, the more control the wind has. Thats why I think upshots are tougher to get right with the wind versus putts and drives where you can "power through" the wind.

It takes experience to know how to evaluate tricky situation with both wind and elevation. The shot before the putt is the most critical to judge correctly. It is good to think about exactly where on the green you would like to be putting from. For example, you don't want an uphill, headwind putt or a testy downhiller that could easily 3-putt. I've noticed that this can certainly change what kind of throw you make for an upshot.

One quirky combination of wind and elevation is putting downhill into the wind. You think it is going to rise, but it does the opposite. Unlike typical headwind putts, the wind is now working on the top of the disc instead of forcing it up from the bottom.

Something that makes it more complicated yet, is what effect the elevation has on the wind direction. I think Ron went over some of this in his article on wind play. Like in the previous example, if the headwind was strong and the hill steep, a headwind would actually be heading not just at you, but upward as well, which would certainly change the flight. Most of the time, this is probably unconsciously factored in. But with a dramatic situation, like a cliff shot, I think a lot of times we can be surprised with what the wind does to our shots.