New Innova

[Peng]

Discraft has a thread. Why not Innova? I'm still new-ish to the sport, been playing as much as I can for about a year now, and it seems that Discraft comes out with all the new discs. How often does Innova come out with new stuff? They've got a pretty solid line-up but new discs are always fun.

Anyone try out the Mako yet? I've got one on the way but I'm not sure what to expect.

[cfluty]

What about the new katana, speed of 13+ and is supposed to be less high speed stable than the groove and boss. For "finesse" high speed drives , I'm ordering one this week as they are pre released for the japan open and limited right now and quite pricey on eBay. Discgolfvalues.com currently has a pretty good stock of them in pro plastic and the champion plastic ones are only on eBay at this time.

[mrsenortyler]

Innova had their coming out party last year! They introduced several models, just not a lot over the last 12 months. I think that they have waaayyy to many models anyway...but it is always interesting to see what they are cooking up.

I think I will just wait until Rusco gets some of these new discs and buy them from him. I am in no need for new models right now. I like the current line up of my bag. The Katana might be nice to try. I love the R-pro boss, but they don't last too long. I need something that flight characteristics don't change when I really whack a tree. (unfortunately that happens quite often to me. Who puts trees in front of all those tee pads? )

[cfluty]

Sng, they have champion katanas, but are limited so the price is being driven sky high and is becoming more of a collector price

[scarpfish]

I wonder if the Katana is going to be Avery's signature disc?

Anyways it will be fun next year watching all the noodle arm rec and casual players who have no business throwing a disc that fast, peeing their paycheck away on them, and throwing them 250' max, 30 degrees off target, fluttering like a butterfly the whole flight, and yet thinking they're the greatest thing since sliced bread.

[mrsenortyler]

I wonder if the Katana is going to be Avery's signature disc?

I doubt he would even throw the Katana.

I heard he would prefer the Pro Destroyer for a signature disc.

[cfluty]

I have two on the way, bought them as soon as they released them at HeroDiscUSA.com
I guess we'll see when they get here, but you probably shouldn't judge it before you know anything about it or have thrown it, you may like it. whats wrong with rec's and casual's throwing 250' drives that are off target? You've got to start somewhere, right?

[Schoen-hopper]

This brings up an interesting debate. The manufacturers suggest these 13 speed discs aren't recommended for those newer to the game, or those with lower arm speed releases, yet sometimes these are the players that are buying them up the quickest?

Why are they wrong for beginners? Because since they go farther faster, they have more potential to go more "off course". I see some amateur players at league throwing flick shots with 400+ feet of power on their shots. And they are thowing a Groove! That thing is going all over the place. While most of the time, less experienced players are encouraged to throw less stable plastic, in this case I would recommend more stable. For high-speed flick shots, you need something overstable because predictability on this shot is crucial.

But are these discs always wrong for amateurs? I think in some cases, I think they make more sense than they do for pros. Take the Champ Boss for example. A player that is consistently coming up 20-30' short of where their drive needs to land on key holes could really take advantage of higher speed plastic. But a pro, who can throw the distance needed already, with say, a Star Wraith, would be hurting himself throwing a less accurate, faster disc. I don't necessarily think the Boss is inaccurate, but one thing I have noticed about it is that it always skips. The thing just wants to keep going at the end and will skip, skip, skip. So NOT a good disc if you are playing a straight hole or one with some OB. Choose it for the right shots.

[cfluty]

Herodisc calls the katana a sidewinder on steroids

[mrsenortyler]

I don't see why high speed discs would be considered "for experienced players only." It seems that high speed discs would help them get extra distance they couldn't get lower speed drivers.

It may take them longer to learn an R-Pro boss than a Cheetah, but it goes twice as far. I always recommend understable discs with more turn for newer players, but don't really consider speed of the disc a prohibitive factor.

Having a firebird or pred in the bag is always a key part to your game, (predictability) but throwing them really isn't beneficial until you learn how discs are supposed to fly. (sidearm shots not included)

[cfluty]

i'm more of a fan of understable discs, and i can't throw the overstable discs nearly as far or with near the control as the overstable discs. That is one reason why I bought a couple of these first run prototype katanas. And no, i don't have a scratch handicap, not everyone is built the same way, nor do they have the same skill set.

[scarpfish]

I wonder if the Katana is going to be Avery's signature disc?

I doubt he would even throw the Katana.

I heard he would prefer the Pro Destroyer for a signature disc.

I don't neccesarily think signature discs are a matter of what a player actually throws anymore. I don't know if its current, but according to Dave Feldberg's Innova page, he doesn't throw a Boss.

http://innovadiscs.com/team/davef.html

I guess we'll see when they get here, but you probably shouldn't judge it before you know anything about it or have thrown it, you may like it.

I know it has a 2.5 cm rim just like a Boss does, so that pretty much makes it useless for my undersized mitts.

whats wrong with rec's and casual's throwing 250' drives that are off target? You've got to start somewhere, right?

The problem is that we're playing golf, not chucking for distance. Getting closer to the target, and not neccesarily farther from the tee is sort of the idea. A great deal of these players I see buying these super high speed discs could get the same D results and considerably more accuracy with a slower less sexy driver if they'd practice their form a little bit.

Oh well, can't really blame the disc manufacturers for marketing to a young man's testosterone. God knows the electronics, automotive, and other sporting good companies have made a mint doing it.

[sweetphil]

i agree that their is a surplus of innova disc out there. i currently throw a Max on most of my drives but could very easily throw a Destroyer, XCaliber or Boss. i usually throw max weights and for the most part they all do pretty much the same thing. i have found that the more i play i'm leaning towards less stable discs just so i don't have to really work a disc to make it go where i want it. ~ play smarter not harder ~ i see how new players are drawn to exciting new/fast disc but kind of agree with manufacturers that say "for experienced players" my thought is that in order for a disc with speed 13 and fade whatever to fly the way it was made to fly it needs a more experienced player/arm. not to say that they can't or shouldn't throw them but they probably won't get the desired results. the Katana ( sidewinder on steriods ) sounds scary to me but i like the name.

[doc]

The wider the rim - the more nose-angle sensitive they are at launch.

If one can't throw a Tee Bird/fairway-driver-of-choice straight-ish with control - then throwing a Boss is likely a big gamble as far as landing it where one wants off the tee.

Work your way up to faster discs.

[ronconversjr]

I don't see why high speed discs would be considered "for experienced players only." It seems that high speed discs would help them get extra distance they couldn't get lower speed drivers.

It may take them longer to learn an R-Pro boss than a Cheetah, but it goes twice as far. I always recommend understable discs with more turn for newer players, but don't really consider speed of the disc a prohibitive factor.

Having a firebird or pred in the bag is always a key part to your game, (predictability) but throwing them really isn't beneficial until you learn how discs are supposed to fly. (sidearm shots not included)

Since stability is directly related to the airspeed of the disc, if you can't throw fast enough to power the disc it won't fly as it is designed. A fast disc is made to react to high speed air against it's wings differently than an older style disc that achieved distance through superior glide.
One of my favorite analogies goes like this:
Discs are like airplanes. You are the engine that powers the disc. If you try to power a jet plane with a motor designed for a biplane, the jet does nothing but crash.( Hyzer out!) A slower disc requires less speed and will go farther at a slower speed by continuing to fly.
The control issue is obvious. What is not as obvious, is that a slower disc will usually get better distance for a weaker arm. There are a few "fast "discs that are so understable that they don't hyzer out, but a gust of wind which doubles the airspeed against those disc's makes a surprise roller! If we lived in forest, I guess it wouldn't be a big deal, but around here, the wind plays. You "learn" a R-Pro by getting to be a good guesser, Or by increasing your armspeed!