Thomas's Hardest Holes (Rank'em)

[one19]

You could call 14, 17, 2 par 4's. That would change the handicap ranking, but would add some credibility to the course in my opinion. Make some snazzy scorecards for it with distances & hole handicaps.

Science would negate this personal opinion discussion. And what fun would that be?!

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Snazzy scorecards sound fun!

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[Schoen-hopper]

There is an excel template you can plug in player names & ratings & round scores and it will give you the SSA. I know it's on the PDGA site if you dig for it. Would be pretty cool info for Thomas.

Of course if you put in alternates that differ significantly in distance, that would mess with the handicap numbers thing. You could have several SSA's for several layouts. Thomas does look like it could support some pretty cool alternates.

[pschmidt]

Got it! I couldn't find it on the PDGA website so I made my own. Even with R/B doing cards on Friday's, it's still gonna take almost the whole season to get an accurate average based on how the PDGA says this should be done.

PDGA website says a "Gold" player has a rating of 1000, a "Blue" player has an average rating of 950, and a "White" player has a rating of 900. You are supposed to get averages from players with similar ratings. If we do '"Blue" players, this would include myself, austin, hero, jordan, stretch, trent, andy, etc. R/B has a rating in the 990's so he would be considered a "Gold" player and we couldn't use his scores. Tom has a rating in the 890's so he would be considered a "White" player and his scores wouldn't be used either.

I guess I'll try to get scorecards from R/B. Here's the link to the spreadsheet the second sheet shows the average information.

[Schoen-hopper]

Can't believe I can't find it either. I believe I have it at home. Very easy to use. With as many rated players as you have in Salina, you should get a good SSA estimate within 2-3 rounds. The template can also calculate local player ratings. So those people without PDGA ratings can find out what theirs would be based on local round play. Pretty cool.

[Schoen-hopper]

Phil, woks your email address? PM me and I'll send you this file.

It has some info plugged in so you can see how it works. I believe you can add unrated players to the first sheet and then see what their "local" player ratings are on the 2nd sheet.

It would still be cool to see hole by hole stats, which this file can't help with. Then you can figure scoring spready / standard deviation for each hole. How nerdy would this be?

[pschmidt]

Standard deviation... for disc golf? WOW.

Hole 14 score average: 4.23 +/- 1.89 (That's way too nerdy for me!)

[pschmidt]

Average Scores
Thru 2 weeks of Friday Singles

Hole Average Score
#14 - 4.4
#17 - 4.0
#2 - 3.6
#18 - 3.4
#11 - 3.4
#1 - 3.4
#10 - 3.4
#4 - 3.3
#3 - 3.3
#5 - 3.2
#12 - 3.1
#9 - 3.1
#15 - 3.1
#13 - 3.1
#16 - 3.0
#7 - 2.6
#8 - 2.6
#6 - 2.4

Average score of players ranked between 930 to 980... 58.67.
Spreadsheet

[Schoen-hopper]

Cool stuff Phil! I like your hole score percentages, just like the USDGC does. Need more data, but looks like there are a lot of holes at Thomas that produce 3 scores or better. 17 gives ideal par 4 scores. You guys must be good tunnel shot throwers. Who would guess scores would be that low on holes 2 or 9. Bet they will get tougher over the summer? More data will tell a better story. Looks like so far Nate had the best guess for the 6 toughest.

How do you link a spreadsheet to the forum?

Looks like so far a rough guess for advanced paris almost 59? So 1000 rated golf might be right about 54. Might be a little tougher in the summer? Pine trees are tough all year though. What does the other spreadsheet give for the SSA? You probably need some more rated players to get a good idea. Are some not renewed? Can you look up ratings history on them?

I think this is an upper advanced/ pro course. Since the 3 most difficult holes are so much tougher than the rest, I think calling this course a par 57 is not a bad call. That is certainly a good score out there. A 54 out there is definitely under par.

[pschmidt]

How do you link a spreadsheet to the forum?

I uploaded the spreadsheet to my webspace and linked to it like a normal website.

Here's the player rating information. Still need more data here too. Course definitely will get tougher over the Summer.

[Schoen-hopper]

Awesome. How many permanent courses in KS have an SSA of 54 or higher? Some courses might have some long pin layouts that are tougher (Wyco, Rosedale, Frontier, Herman Hill, Colwich!,Grove maybe, not sure if Ted's is back in now or what), but I'm not sure there is a course that's all around tougher? We'll see with Lake Perry. What's cool is that it is definitely a fair course. Imagine if there was more OB!

[disc golf superhero]

R/B keeps saying he's going to chime in on this thread. Guess it's up to me to let you and him know his opinion.

In this order:
1) 14 (Austin's Fav)
2) 17
3) 4
4) 2
5) 9
6) 11

Doubt there'll be much debate on the 2 hardest.

He also says that do to his failure to follow the rule about walking though bear country he indeed witness men on their knees on 14.

[R/B]

Credit should be given to Harvey for coming up with the challenge of " 14 ". I,m sure he had no idea it would create the controversy it has. A visionary indeed! From the begining the forces were against us ,with indecent acts for years being performed in and on that corner, right where you tee off. "sorry just telling it like it is". The battle for land claim is still current. Getting beyond that "vibe" is a challenge, and throwing the precision that is needed for Thomas,s most technicle hole is most fulfilling.

I find hole 9 to be 2nd hardest. long and straight in between mid and short driver. deflections are seldom friendly. You have to throw hard, and many 4,s and 5,s will be had before the elusive 2 shows face.

Hole 17 gets plenty of respect and cursing! This is one hole I,m not too disapointed with a 4. props to you fellows that bagged the bird! I have fond memories of clint D. throwing that pipe long before the course was in." yes he grunted"

Hole 4 has its place being a blind hole with OB left ,Nasty woods right, plenty of south wind! Big arms who throw turnovers( Austin) kinda like this hole. Still waiting for a power lefty to hork one in!
Thats my top 4 but I,ve left a bogey trail on most all the others as well!

[pschmidt]

Here the SSA data through 4 rounds of singles. Looks like the course is getting... easier??? Not what I expected after last week's scores. We keep going like this and we'll have to keep par at 54.

[Schoen-hopper]

Even if the SSA gets down to 54 doesn't mean you have to make par 54. Advanced par at 950 rated golf would average 59 if this were true. Par at 57-59 gives a truer value for most "good" players. Very few courses set par at the "gold" 1000 rated level (if they bother to set par at all).

I notice some players play quite a bit better than their PDGA rating. Question: What happens to the overall SSA if you plug the local player ratings for the PDGA ratings?

[pschmidt]

What happens to the overall SSA if you plug the local player ratings for the PDGA ratings?

The SSA goes back up to 54.18. I thought it would change more but R/B, Nate, & I all have local ratings that are lower than our PDGA ratings. We must be bringing everyone else down.