Hook a brutha up (long and drunk post)

Throwing techniques/styles, training, practice
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Ruder
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Hook a brutha up (long and drunk post)

Postby Ruder » Thu Dec 07, 2006 3:02 am

Let the rant begin - Take a few days to read this, or don't read it at all, it's whatever.


My disc golf teacher is long gone and I'm left only to my own wits on how to become the golfer I want to be. 2006 turned out no where near where I wanted OR thought it should have ended up. My regimen included a lot of practice and thinking, but really there is no way for me to apply it other than driving millions of miles to a tournament. This sucks.

I present to you: your chance to have an effect on my 2007 season. Every year I have set goals for my season and have failed misserably. Well, this year is no different. The goal for 2007 season - Rookie of the Year. Pretty lofty if you ask me, but none the less I want nothing more rewarding than this. I think Pappy Blazek has an awesome chance for this title and I also feel our games mirror pretty well considering how different our playing style is; so the hope is there.

Well here it is, and I will lay it out on the table for you. My biggest weakness, that I know of, Is that for every good round - I have an equally opposite and terrible round. Why do I have terrible rounds? I don't know - God hates me, I guess? Hopefully YOU can help out. Once this goes I will be where I want to be. I want to have a bag that will treat me well in all conditions with discs that will have flight characteristics that will give me more leeway to make good shots.


Currently my bag consists of
-

Challenger's x 2
Magnet x 1
Buzz x 3 (esp, z, d)[stable, slightly flippy, really flippy]
hawk x1 (z)
Flash x3 (z,z,z)[flippy, straight, straight stable]
Surge x2(esp, esp)
Pred x1 (z)
Pulse x1

(Here is why I like the discs I use and why:
Buzz's are good because you know why, but they fly fast and can get me into trouble. My ideal disc would be a first run buzzz, but I could never shell out that much dough on a frisbee without have multiples. As it is now, if I want to do anything fancy I have to put some right turn on it which is where the trouble starts. (Any tricks on releasing at angles?)

Hawk I love it because of its buzz tendencies only it flies at slower speeds and therefore is more predictable to me. My ideal flight pattern for any disc when throwing for placement.

Flash This is basically my hawk in driver form. My most comfortable throw is being able to throw a disc on a flat line but releasing with hyzer, and the disc still landing on the same line I threw it. I find my lines can be more accurate when I release on a hyzer.

Surge I throw my Surges for Big d, but if I'm afraid of landing too far right, I'll throw a stable flash to make sure it doesn't flip too much. It seems that the Surge is necessity.

Pred The Pred. OH THE PRED. Maybe I don't throw this disc enough and maybe that is one of my problems. Ideally I would throw this any time I could, but I always find an excuse not to, except for the wind. WHY? (What is the best way to throw this disc? High and stable, flat and way out right, way out right and tall? Skip? Spike? )

Pulse Thrown for a flicky that I need to make sure gets to where I want to go before it hyzers or in place of a surge for a headwind. I'm clueless on what to do with this disc. It is a first run, it seems I should either ditch it or get a 2nd run max weight that is heavier and more predictable (stable).

Discs I have considered putting in or back in the bag:

Drone/Z-Wasp
Avenger
Comet
Banger-GT
Crush


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Putting is finicky and I've mostly realized that I will have to deal with that myself. If there was anything I could use advice on it would be upping my percentage from 30-60 feet. I want to be able to run at it and stay within 15 feet on the comeback. I'm not so sure jump putting is very productive for this - it works a lot but can leave you long at the worst possible times. (What works best on a standstill putt? Aiming high? Aiming right? ????)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To make this offseason most profitable I will need to enlist YOUR help. Many of you have played with me and have an outside perspective of my game. I would like your advice on practice routines, ability to execute shots (shot making), ability to execute putts, good route decisions, and disc reccomendations. Also, how can I measure my progress?


I will say my thanks in advance to anyone who replies. If you even read it thanks, because - wow - what a long post. Schoenhopper, your reign has ended!!!!

Edit - Also, every 4-5 days I will reply to this post and offer up an imaginary hole and I think it would be cool if everyone gave their insight of how they would throw it and why.
I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times.

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McCabe
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Postby McCabe » Thu Dec 07, 2006 9:02 am

You are a good player, and will be a better player, all it takes is confedence!! Here is what I think you should try...
Take the Hawk out of the bag, it's going to be hard to replace this disc before too long...replace it with the Comet, or D/X Buzzz. this disc is a little slower than the ESP. You could also try out the Z Wasp, or wait till early next season when the Torque is re-released.
As far as your putters go, what do you use your Magnet for? I've found that there is nothing my Challenger can't do that my Magnet did for me.
I know your a Flash guy, which is all good, but, I do think you need to trust your Surge more.
Also, you SHOULD try a Crush again, you never know, your might just fall in love with the ESP..
The other main thing would be, when you go to the course, do you just play rounds? Or do you practice? And by practice, I mean one day you take a bag full of midrange and find a place to just throw them all day. Next day, take a bag full of drivers..trush me, it works!
as far as putting goes, it IS the hardest part of the game, and is what really makes you a great player. Get yourself some more Challengers, or whatever putter is your preference.. and just PUTT, PUTT, PUTT!!!! Repatition will make you a better golfer!
The goal for 2007 season - Rookie of the Year.

I don't think this is "out of reach," but you are going to have to Play a LOAD of tournaments! and not just B tiers, I'm talking about NT's and A Tiers...which is going to help improve your game as well, cuz everyone should know that the better you compatition is, you better golfer you will become!

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Postby superq » Thu Dec 07, 2006 9:48 am

I agree with Eric on the practice for sure. I have gotten in a rut myself got to where I was shooting 4-7 under at crestview every time and never getting better, even to the point where I was deucing the same holes and missing the same holes.

For the last few weeks I have been doing a few things you might try seems to be helping,

1. switch the plastic in your bag. I went through my bag and determined what shot each disc was there for took out the overlaps and added some new stuff to try out.

2. It is winter so I decided that this season is all practice so I have been throwing diferent lines on every hole. Like hole 2 at crestview its the mando left of the pole right now its in long and usually I throw a big Anny to the left of the tree to apex at about 40 feet and fly it there. since I started forcing myself to practice I will throw a roller, low straight shot, or a big hyzer (screw the mando its practice)

3. three disc rounds
A lot of times when I just want to get out there I will take a putter mid and straight driver and play the high percentage shots. I have found that I shoot within a stroke or two with 3 compared to when I lug the entire bag (This was actually something I picked up from Babbit years ago he would play E town with 2 rocs and a putter.

4. Putt
In the middle of the season I spent a lot of time putting at night
(4-6 hours a week just putting) I realized though that I was putting all wrong I was practicing a putting form that was limited in range to about 30 feet. So I read the articles at DGR I talked to Blake and others about form and I watched videos of the best putters in the game and found a putt that I can use from 5 feet all the way to about 90. I dont make them all but practicing has made me a lot more confident and that has translated to more made putts. So when I have a 50 footer I can run it more agresivly becuase I know that if I have to step up to a 25 footer for the par I will drain it so no fear to run the deuces.

5. Mental game
Last year at Mac and at the LSO I played with Emac and Smitty the first round and watched both of them start off blazing- I think smitty deuced like 7 of the first 9 in Mac. It made me realize that it is not good enough to have the shot and to have the disc, you have to execute and that means picking the shot the disc and the route and then putting it all together. You just have to know when all is said and done that you can play as good and better than anyone else on any given day.

6. Consistancy
The guys that win seem to win or be close a lot and it has to do with consistancy so I have been practicing to improve that more than anything. I want to know that I can step up and throw a shot for any situation I get into and make that shot the best quality shot possible.

T Rude you have a solid game you will be fine just remember you have some very important things going for you.

1. your still a kid
2. you have no wife
3. you have no kids
4. you love the game

I hope you make it to ROY, that would be bad a$$ and its a great goal.

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Postby discatcher » Thu Dec 07, 2006 10:54 am

Aleksey Bubis Won ROY for 2005.

He played in 33 PDGA tournaments amassing 6,982 points and $10,357 in winnings.

It's a lofty goal but you can do it if you make the commitment.

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Postby Ruder » Thu Dec 07, 2006 1:47 pm

As far as the schedule goes, I doubt I'll hit 33 PDGA tournaments. This will definately hurt me because 30+ is a definate trend for RoY. If I came out of the year thinking I could have done it if I played 30, that is good enough for me. But I will make the ones I go to count. I plan on hopefully hitting 2 majors. One being the Players Cup. The other one would depend on cash and how well the season had treated me. I'll also 3-4 A-Tiers and 2-3 Supertours. (Wide Open, Majestic, CO States, The Memorial, Something in IA and whatever fancies my liking.) The better I place, the more tournaments I can play. I'm looking to hit about 15 Nice sized tournaments.

Midranges is going to be my hardest decision. I have a Z-wasp, I'll give that a go and get more comfortable with it.

Crush - Please tell me why this disc. I used to love it but after it fell out of my bag it has never had the same meaning to me. It seems really stable and I just found myself throwing the pred instead. Maybe I didn't throw it enough. Should I have multiples? What excuses do you find to throw your crush?

Practice is where I am hoping to get my leg up this season, I just want to be practicing with discs that I may be using next season. Do you take your whole bag in a field and throw all turnovers once, all hyzers next, all straight? How do you go about emptying the bag? I probably play more rounds than practice, but I also tend to shoot terrible at home because I use my rounds for practice - I think.
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5. Mental game - What aspects go into executing everytime, recovering from a bad shot? How do you stay focused all round?

6.Consistancy - Where does your consistancy come from? Do you throw the same disc any time you can? Your most accurate line?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

How does everyone keep their energy during a round? Ways that you keep yourself excited from beginning to end. This is easy to do when you are running on a hot streak, but if that game goes downhill it is easy to get lethargic.

Next Episode : Courses that are long and have little room for error.

Edit - Thanks for taking the time to reply. I hope a lot of people join in with their input. I would gladly turn any and all information into a resource that can be used by everyone.
I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times.

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Postby Schoen-hopper » Thu Dec 07, 2006 2:17 pm

You know exactly how good I am not, so take my advice lightly.

I think your strength is your putting. I see you make long putts a lot. When you fly by, you make the come-back. If you can keep this up, your tourney results should be great. I also think putting is the most important part of the game.

On the midrange, you need something that goes straight from the beginning of the flight until the very end, even in a tailwind condition. The Buzzz is great, but fades for me unless into the wind. I suppose it depends on arm speed more than spin. I use Z MRV for slower, straighter shots.

On the drive, I've always thought to get rid of the anny. Hyzer-flip with a less stable disc is much more consistant for me. You need a disc in your bag that you can release with a hyzer and it stands up and goes straight forever AND THEN turns over and flies some more. In general, low hyzers are more consistant for drives. I remember giving you this advice before Haikey and you tore the hell out of it.

That's the key is choosing the shot that gives you the best percentages. Don't try to do more in a tournament than is reasonable for your practice level of a given shot.

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Postby superq » Thu Dec 07, 2006 2:53 pm

Focus during the round is tough for me too. I try to have a pre shot routine that gets me back. I decided last year that trying to stay focused for 3-4 hours of golf in a row is impossible for me so as soon as I am done shooting my mind gets to go on vacation. Talk to whoever think about the grocery list whatever but as soon as I get to my next shot it is back to business.

my rotuine goes like this
1. Focus back to golf clear everything else out this shot is whats important.
1. look at what I need to do for the shot and decide on the line.
2. Mark my lie and pick up and put away the disc I threw.
3. take my stance and look at the line again to make sure I am still right
4. execute the shot

then its back to having fun becuase that shot is done and no matter what you cant do it again so there is no point getting upset if it didnt go right.

It seems to help me anyway.

As far as disc selection I am getting back to the basics I like to carry 4-7 drivers and 3-5 mids and 2-3 putters. I try to make sure I have a mid for straight turnover and hyzer situations and drivers for the same plus a roller and spike hyzer disc.

It looks like you are doing a discraft thing and that is cool I agree with Emac the Hawk needs to go and the comet may be the ticket. I threw comet for quite a while it will handle power and has a pretty consistant flight when its not to windy. If you are ok with other manufacturers discs you may want to talk to Rusco Milinium has a new mid out that is lazer beam straight DocN had one at wyco cant remember what it was.

The other thing on discs I would recomend is getting 1 or two stable baseplastic drivers like a D XL or anything D that is pretty straight. You will find that the distance and flight potential in the base plastic is different I can not get anything but the base plastic to fly 4 directions, and they are more predictable on the hyzer flip lines you will throw.

Bottom line is practice practice practice and if you have a video camera take some vid of your different throws and watch them you will see where the problems are and where you can smooth it out, that helped me with the consistancy more than anything.

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Postby smitty » Thu Dec 07, 2006 3:14 pm

Ruder-

I would agree with Mike your putt is solid. You make a ton of longer putts. Keep working on it.

You asked should you carry multiples. Yes, I have 3 Preds in my bag most of the time. Old Yellow Bomber, Workhorse Green, And the almost new. I use almost new a ton at league and things like that. As soon as he get beat in, he will become a workhorse.


As far as needing the crush. I was kind of like you. I use to love that disc. I would often find myself wondering Crush or Pred? Not something I want to do. Now the only question is how strong of a Pred.

The Surge takes care of all my LOOOONG range shots.


The Buzzz is money! All the midrange a person really needs. I have 2 or 3 in my bag all the time. 1 that is stable to over stable, and one that is flippy. The other is to throw close to water, because you don't want to lose you best disc.

The Drone is a must in Kansas. It can go in and out depending on the wind.

I don't think you can get rid of the Magnet. You use it for both putting and upshots, and throw it very well. Timmy Gill only uses magnets.

I also have some crazy stuff in my bag. XS, I am trying to learn a good roller. Stratus, that thing is just crazy.



When I practice, I like to hit the course alone (R. Hills/Ellis/WaKeeney) would all be great places to practice. I will throw several drives on a hole, and throw several shots. Then I play out every drive. If I play hole that is only drive and putt, I will often drive, move into buzz range, move into putter range. I always finish with 2 putts from each disc.

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Postby McCabe » Thu Dec 07, 2006 4:50 pm

I never told Ruder to get rid of the Magnet, I was just wondering what he used it for...The Magnet IS a good disc, I just prefer the Challenger....
So you putt with both Rude? I can understand using one for upshots and the other to putt with..do you jump putt with the Magnet?

As far as the Crush goes, I've only had a couple of them that flew anything like a Predator..the ESP Crush seems to be somewhat stable at first, but not Pred stable...IMO..

My advise to you is find what discs seems to work for you. One you feel comfortable throwing, and get a few of them, like Smitty said, it's good to have a few of the same modle in your bad..
My bag is very simple:
3 ESP Surges
3 Buzzz'z 2 ESP, 1 First run Z
3 Z Predators
1 Z Crush - roller
2 D Challengers
1 Z Flick

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Bag and Decisions

Postby BlazinPat » Thu Dec 07, 2006 5:14 pm

So I'm kinda in the same predicament as Tracy. He and I are kinda playing at the same rate and we both have kinda the same goals and plans. I really want to up my game next year and really stand out in the State of Colorado. I have and plan to practice around 5 days a week during winter to keep my game up and a head start for next year. I plan on hitting up some big events next year also, The Memorial, Pro Worlds, USDGC, The Players Cup, Colorado States, and KC Wide Open. I'm sure there will be others, but those are the definate ones right now. So I know my driving for distance and slightly more open shots are very good. But when it comes to really technical and slightly shorter shots or very technical short shots I tend to have a lil more troubles. I actually think this is because I don't have any discs in my bag that are very understable that you can throw at slow speeds and have them either just finish with an anny or finish flat. I think i need to invest in a beat in X or D buzz. So here is what is in my bag.

Drivers
3 - Surges one first run that is perfect for that long S shot my second run from Worlds that is just straight and my Emporia ghost stamp that is nice and Stable but still flys.

1 - 2005 Players Cup Tracker, very nicely beat in and I can control this how ever I want. It will hold an anny, fly straight as an arrow, or I can use it for a slight carrying hyzer shot.

2 - Z Flicks, I use a 166gram and a 169gram. The 169 is for harder hyzer side arms and skip side arms, and the 166 is for my longer side arm shots.

1 - Z Predator 172gram, now this thing is fairly new and I usually don't throw preds but I just hear all the hype and I am trying this out and actually liking it. It is very predictable and nice for shots between 300feet and 425feet.

Mid Rangers

4 Buzzz's - 1 really stable one for mainly sidearm upshots, 1 first run for everthing (straight shots mainly) 1 X buzzz for slight turnovers, and 1 ESP Buzzz for my hyzer shots.

1 Ron Russel Z Comet - My main short shot disc or turnover shot disc.

1 Qmega - Great for the holes that are just short enough to through a putter on. It floats like no other and is very straight and controllable. (yes i know it's not discraft) :(

Putters

2 Wizards - Now i've had troubles finding those perfect magnets, and challengers for some reason just don't work for me. Maybe I just haven't found the right one. I am gonna try to see if I can find some older beatin in ones from someone.

1 Beatin' In Soft D magnet - This I am kinda using for jump putts and shorter straight and turnover upshots.

Any suggestions on maybe some changes or replacements or additions?
Pat Blazek #25325

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Goals

Postby BlazinPat » Thu Dec 07, 2006 6:10 pm

I guess I kinda left out some goals, I myself do not see me getting anywhere close to rookie of the year. But my Goals for next year are

1- By the end of the year to have my rating above a 990 (currently I think I am gonna end at a 966 for this year).

2- Have my season earnings higher than $3000.

3 - Hit up at least 3 NT's 7 A - Tiers and a couple Super Tours.

4 - Hit up at least a total of 15 PDGA events.

5 - Win an 'A' Tier and at least 2 'B' Tiers.

Aside from those I would also like to improve my putting so that I am very confident putting inside of 40 feet. I know my putting has improved a lot over the last year but I know that still have a ways to go. My jump putts are also a little inconsistant. So I am gonna work on getting my putting from 40 feet up to 70%ish and my putts from 25 to 30 feet around 80%. Right now I would say that I am around 40% from 40 feet and 50% to 60% around 25 to 30 feet.

One other goal that I would like to achieve is to be able to throw over 500 feet a lil more often and consistantly. I can throw over 500 feet, but it just only happens on those holes that are fairly wide open and over 500 feet about 1 outta 5 times. So those are my goals for those of you who are interested. I'm sure there are plenty more but those are what I can think of right now. :P
Pat Blazek #25325

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MOthrows
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Postby MOthrows » Thu Dec 07, 2006 9:30 pm

I have no constructive things to offer (because I suck) but I did want to say that I'm really enjoying the advice that everyone is offering. I wish we could have a kdga putting clinic.

smitty
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Postby smitty » Thu Dec 07, 2006 9:59 pm

MOthrows wrote:I have no constructive things to offer (because I suck) but I did want to say that I'm really enjoying the advice that everyone is offering. I wish we could have a kdga putting clinic.



We will get that round in during Christmas vacation.

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Ruder
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Postby Ruder » Thu Dec 07, 2006 10:01 pm

Pat - Your putt I saw at the DDO was the best lookin it has been.

Today while I was out and about on the course I rearranged my bag and took out all of my flashes but one and only because it is my only turnover disc. I doubt they will stay out forever, but the main goal of it was to force myself to throw my surge. I thought that was good advice to trust it more. It is a double bonus because the more I throw it, the more I know its tendencies.

As for the magnet. I usually putt with my challenger unless I decide that my challenger will fall off on my too quick. So my magnet gets used on some puts outside the circle, certain downhill putts. I also have this ability to know when one of my putts will hit high left and fall out of basket before I throw it. This is when I will go to the magnet. The putt in question tends to be slightly downhill and when I have to kinda stradle in my stance - my weight always get's transfered into the upper left corner. Throwing my magnet is a cure to this problem. Also, I really have no trouble switching in and out between the two molds, they both feel comfortable. It is weird, but I can feel the stability of the two when I hold them in my hand so I don't really get confused.

On a side note - One thing that boggles my mind is how good the magnet is in the WIND. I know it is generally a flippy turd but the way it can ride the wind is amazing. (30 - 90 ft)

On the plate for tomorrow: I will be getting to know my midranges better. I plan on taking them out for some biscuits and gravy and a cup of coffee. Maybe a matinee movie after that. Then I'll throw all of them into the trees a few hundred times.

This thread is turning into a gold mine, there is so much good information in it.
I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times.

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Postby pironix » Thu Dec 07, 2006 10:48 pm

MOthrows wrote:I have no constructive things to offer (because I suck) but I did want to say that I'm really enjoying the advice that everyone is offering. I wish we could have a kdga putting clinic.


I definitely agree with that. Wish I had a clue to how to jump putt...


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