2011 Oz Tour Points Update

[smitty]

I would like to see how it would play out with all events being equal 1 pt/person. I would also be interested to see how it worked out if the 2 day events were worth 2 points. Seems like if you invest 2 days in a tourney it should be worth more then 1 day invested.

We are kind of stuck with what we have for this year. But next year, we can make a few changes.

[jnotty]

First of all, I appreciate the backing Swede, and everybody throwing out ideas.
There are a lot of good ideas for next year, and I will try to do my part and get some more members to join up from the KC area next year. I would love to run a tournament somewhere in this area next year as well, location and format to be decided still.

Unfortunately, I will not be able to make it to Newton this weekend, there is this somewhat big game going on in Manhattan GO WILDCATS!!!

But I will probably make it down to Wichita next weekend to try and beat out Bo, Unruh, Ring, Mass, and every other local that is trying to get into the finals...The odds are stacked against me but I have played the Round-Up the last 2 years, might as well do it again.

One more thing though....Don't we all agree that it is kind of B.S., that anybody can play out their ass at Wichita, and beat the rest of the unqualified field, and make it in to the finals. Even if it is just some random person that shows up and pays his $30 KDGA fee, and wins. Somebody could technically play 1 OZ tour event and qualify, while the rest of us worked all summer for nothing.
Also, what happens if somebody decides not to go to the finals that is qualified? Do we fill that spot? If so, I'll roofie some drinks that Saturday night in Wichita

[kselrod]

Intermediate: 25%
Am Master: 30%
Advanced & Junior: 35%
Master & Grandmaster: 40%
Open & Women: 45%

We're already giving out a ton of extra cash, so I wouldn't want to tweak it too much. If you run the above numbers on our division fields this year, you get a couple less intermediates, and extra advanced, extra master, and 3 extra open players. The players who play 0 to 2 events per year usually sign up intermediate, which boosts their numbers. Also, small divisions get a bigger % qualified with the 2 last chance bids plus regional qualifiers. While the open division just gets the top third. Doesn't seem fair, so this would be a possible solution.

Something like this definately seems easier in the long run and extremely less complicated. Unless you feel compelled to complicate your life then then by all means create a formula that only the guys from Big Bang Theory could figure out...lol.

[smitty]

The Drink you need to slip the roofie in would be Mace on Friday night.

Look at the points and tourney thread. You and Bo are only 1 event behind mace for the Frizz-Rocker clause. If Mace didn't play at the Round-Up and you and Bo did, you would all have 15 events and be in. The other thing you could hope for is that Mace would play well enough to qualify, then you and Bo could slip in based on the Frizz-Rocker clause.

Patzner is the only person who has ever signed up at the last event and qualified for the finals.

It was more intended for the Kevin Babbits of the KDGA who only play a few events.

[kselrod]

One more thing though....Don't we all agree that it is kind of B.S., that anybody can play out their ass at Wichita, and beat the rest of the unqualified field, and make it in to the finals. Even if it is just some random person that shows up and pays his $30 KDGA fee, and wins. Somebody could technically play 1 OZ tour event and qualify, while the rest of us worked all summer for nothing.
Also, what happens if somebody decides not to go to the finals that is qualified? Do we fill that spot? If so, I'll roofie some drinks that Saturday night in Wichita

But isn't that what a last chance qualifier means? I see both sides of the arguement on this issue though. The biggest problem I would have is someone playing in just one event and sandbagging in a lower division just to qualify. Maybe a K-rating or PDGA rating should be required for last chance qualifiers so they are put in the correct division. But if an Adv player plays in his or hers correct division and wins a last chance qualifier then I wouldn't have an issue with that. The only issue I have is with the PDGA system because I don't feel a 934 rated player should play in rec divisions but that will probably never get adjusted by the PDGA.

[smitty]

To me it looks like the only division that has people with very few events qualifying for the finals is the AM division. Kyle is in with only 4 events. Buddy has way more events then Dennis, but Dennis played the bigger events.

As for the Open division. The only person in the final with fewer events then Joe is T-Ruder with 13.


I like the way the LCQ works as it is. If you want to try and qualify at the last event pony up the $30 and go for it. Putting a minimum limit on the would take away from it.

I don't like the fact that a division with only a handful of people not qualified gets a free spot. Women for example. Last year in Salina I think I convinced Mel to sign-up since she was the only chick. Thus getting 2 years (3 since she is in this year) of KDGA for the price of 1.

[smitty]

This is the names of all Am players, no advanced no am. Just one big Am division.

Place in Division Name Points Events played

1 J.D. Wyatt 586 14
2 Jason Adkins 537 19
3 Jeff Vest 506 9
4 Scott Haynes 480 13
5 Casey Fluty 457 15
6 Brandon Tull 439 10
7 Phil Schmidt 419 17
8 Jason Snodgrass 376 8
9 Cort Hughes 347 9
10 Tyler Patzner 328 8
11 Steven Deere 317 12
12 Adam Mosher 306 3 All would get in this way and not the other.
1 Don Zimmerman 296 12
2 Loyd Majors 229 9
13 Andy Lyne 207 5
3 Taylor Camp 201 9
4 Jeremy Kindy 196 14
5 Branden Rusk 182 8
--------------------------------------1/3 of the field.
6 Russ Trice 165 12
7 Kevin Elrod 132 8
8 Kyle Kuhn 127 4
9 Jason Childre 121 8
10 Jacob Rothweiler 120 8
11 Kent Lockhart 115 21 All got the Boot
12 James Fawcett 112 4
13 Tyler Smith 111 2
14 Seth Toepfer 105 3
14 Caleb Campbell 99 7
15 Arty Hicks 97 8
16 Chris Tyler 94 8
17 Scott Carpenter 82 9
18 Jeff Updegrove 70 3
19 Tony Blair 68 5
20 Damen Workentin 53 5
15 Kevin Lambdin 49 1
21 Kurtis Meier 45 1
22 John Mosher 35 1
23 Mark Kewley 25 2
24 Bryan Grossbach 25 3
25 Rick Petrie 20 2
26 Harry Shimp 18 3
27 Adam Bleything 14 2
28 Vince Naccarato 12 2
29 Scott Donaldson 7 1
30 Eric Frayley 3 1
16 Tom Graham 3 1
17 Dan Decker 0 0
18 Adam Searle 0 0
19 Trent Martin 0 0
31 Jerry Powell 0 0
32 Nathan Smiley 0 0
33 Kyle McCready 0 0
34 Lars Nordgren 0 0

Pudge would get hosed the biggest and Mosher would get in with only 3 events.




53 total! 1/3 of 53 would be 17.6 or 18 people.

[b]

The last chance rule needs some disclaimer, probably a min. # events played. If MItch Mac shows for the Round Up as planned I could pay his $30 KDGA, he qualifies in masters, and he cleans up in the finals. Not that I would, but it could happen in any division.

[smitty]

The last chance rule needs some disclaimer, probably a min. # events played. If MItch Mac shows for the Round Up as planned I could pay his $30 KDGA, he qualifies in masters, and he cleans up in the finals. Not that I would, but it could happen in any division.

What is the magic number? 5??? seems logical.

Dave signed Bart up a few years ago, so that he (Dave) could make the top 1/3.

The other thing to remembers, is that nobody really cleans up in the finals. Everyone gets a little slice of the pie.

In the past we have done a $50 entry fee then broke it down all the way until the last person got enough for a KDGA membership. I am leaning this year towards everyone gets a membership, then we add some cash in on top of that. This way we start out with a big member base and grow from there. Most people took the membership in the past, but a few didn't. Then they signed up the next season.

[b]

Again, back in the day, we used a participation points system to try and balance the difference between the good players and those who played a lot but, well, you know. Granted, it was easier with fewer events. Basicly, it was 10 pts your 1st event down to 1 pt for your 10th. These values would need to be higher with more events. We then only counted your 10 best perfomances in the point standings. Not sure this is a solution. Would players quit going to events if they couldn't gain pts? By balancing the pts. between participation and performance you create much closer pt. chases thru the entire season. The current system locks in most players by June. Participation pts. might do away with the need for the Frizz-Rocker clause.

If our funds for the finals are raised by participation, then those who play should have the best chance to win the money back. Allowing those with 0 or 1 or 2 events into the finals over some with 10 or more is not right to those who played.

[jnotty]

The Drink you need to slip the roofie in would be Mace on Friday night.

It would take a lot of narcotics to put Mace down for the count He can hang with the best.

I will just root for Mace to WIN his division and LCQ so Bo and I can get in!!!

[Schoen-hopper]

Again, back in the day, we used a participation points system to try and balance the difference between the good players and those who played a lot but, well, you know. Granted, it was easier with fewer events. Basicly, it was 10 pts your 1st event down to 1 pt for your 10th. These values would need to be higher with more events. We then only counted your 10 best perfomances in the point standings. Not sure this is a solution. Would players quit going to events if they couldn't gain pts? By balancing the pts. between participation and performance you create much closer pt. chases thru the entire season. The current system locks in most players by June. Participation pts. might do away with the need for the Frizz-Rocker clause.

If our funds for the finals are raised by participation, then those who play should have the best chance to win the money back. Allowing those with 0 or 1 or 2 events into the finals over some with 10 or more is not right to those who played.

But if you put a cap on the number of events, that would actually discourage participation, correct? As it is now, a player can always improve their standing by attending more events. There are 3 triple points events later in the season. But years like this one, with no supertour events after Shunga, there is limited movement late in the season.

[kselrod]

I like the Kindy's idea of top divisions getting a larger percentage of players.
Open & Masters - 40%
Adv Am - 35%
All Other - 30%
Always round up for all divisions.

This would put in 42 of 112 members which I don't know if this is to high of a percentage or what. Maybe the whole rounding up regardless is to much. I also don't know how this compares to number of events per player qualified either. I don't know what qualifing really means because this is my first year for all of this but I feel that more of the better players is a good thing for a true State Championship. As a low Am player I'd just be happy to qualify within my division...bonus. I LOVE the idea of having this the day after the last tournament so people don't have to travel back the following weekend. Keeping it in the central part of the state would always be bonus too so some people don't have to travel clear across state to participate. Unless you are dead set on rotating it to all the 18 hole courses in the state...in that case I can't wait to see everyone travel to Pittsburg KS in the year 2064 (assuming I can get the city to install a full 18 by then...lol). Just another suggestion.

*****SAMPLE LIST*****SAMPLE LIST*****SAMPLE LIST*****SAMPLE LIST*****SAMPLE LIST*****

Open
1 Ron Convers 1229
2 Crispin Carrasco 1010
3 Phil Jackson 927
4 Austin Streit 914
5 Brandon Nelson 877
6 Chris Smith 834
7 Tracy Ruder 786
8 Ben Wiggins 759
9 Bo Carrasco 667
10 Joe Hesting 568
11 Brendan Hickman 524
12 Ronnie Unruh 489
13 Nate Martin 482
14 Ben Maass 320
15 Shan Mann 295
16 Chris Jones 292
17 Jeff Ring 288
18 Jeremy Rusco 268
19 Leo Deprato 245
20 Eric McCabe 219
21 Scott Reek 177
22 Michael Schoenhofer 107
23 Nils Nordgren 37
24 Bren Nordgren 10
.
Masters
1 Jared Kintzel 1030
2 Curtis Broadhurst 914
3 Randy Brown 784
4 Darren Bottom 542
5 Don Mordecai 431
6 Mike Speer 381
7 Danny Knox 367
8 Tom Vierthaler 342
9 Brandon Mace 331
10 Iqbal Jehan 256
11 Richard Holmgren 200
12 Jackie Massell 192
13 Mark Salada 187
14 Gary Harvey 163
15 Hal Kurz 0
16 Kyle Klinger 0
.
Grandmasters
1 Dennis Vahsholtz 259
2 Buddy Kassner 230
3 Kevin Rorabaugh 225
4 Harvey Barger 145
5 Terry Burley 143
6 Dave Richardson 120
7 Bill Paulson 109
8 Bruce Hudson 101
.
Advanced Am.
1 J.D. Wyatt 586
2 Jason Adkins 537
3 Jeff Vest 506
4 Scott Haynes 480
5 Casey Fluty 457
6 Brandon Tull 439
7 Phil Schmidt 419
8 Jason Snodgrass 376
9 Cort Hughes 347
10 Tyler Patzner 328
11 Steven Deere 317
12 Adam Mosher 306
13 Andy Lyne 207
14 Seth Toepfer 105
15 Kevin Lambdin 49
16 Tom Graham 3
17 Dan Decker 0
18 Adam Searle 0
19 Trent Martin 0
.
Amateur
1 Don Zimmerman 296
2 Loyd Majors 229
3 Taylor Camp 201
4 Jeremy Kindy 196
5 Branden Rusk 182
6 Russ Trice 165
7 Kevin Elrod 132
8 Kyle Kuhn 127
9 Jason Childre 121
10 Jacob Rothweiler 120
11 Kent Lockhart 115
12 James Fawcett 112
13 Tyler Smith 111
14 Caleb Campbell 99
15 Arty Hicks 97
16 Chris Tyler 94
17 Scott Carpenter 82
18 Jeff Updegrove 70
19 Tony Blair 68
20 Damen Workentin 53
21 Kurtis Meier 45
22 John Mosher 35
23 Mark Kewley 25
24 Bryan Grossbach 25
25 Rick Petrie 20
26 Harry Shimp 18
27 Adam Bleything 14
28 Vince Naccarato 12
29 Scott Donaldson 7
30 Eric Frayley 3
31 Jerry Powell 0
32 Nathan Smiley 0
33 Kyle McCready 0
34 Lars Nordgren 0
.
Am. Masters
1 Greg Larmer 300
2 Tom Osborn 287
3 Dale Bare 177
4 Bob Decker 171
5 Tom Thompson 164
6 Don Moore 22
.
Women
1 Mel Snodgrass 79
2 Robin Reimer 74
3 Tracy Johnson 17
.
Junior
1 Nicklaus Unruh 42
2 Cameron Unruh 36
.
112 members

*****SAMPLE LIST*****SAMPLE LIST*****SAMPLE LIST*****SAMPLE LIST*****SAMPLE LIST*****

[smitty]

Looks like the exact same list to me, with the addition of a couple of pros. Doesn't look to bad to me.

As far as rotating, it goes like this.

Hays
Salina
Wichita
Salina
Region 2(Emporia/Topeka)
Salina
Region 5

I would think that it would make the most since to do it in Salina, Newton, or Hutch every single year. Salina or Newton we know that we would have someone who can figure out a location for a banquet.

[Schoen-hopper]

Saw an error. I gave Scott Donaldson's 19 points to Scott Carpenter.

Update through Salina: Great Life Golf Club: 10/22/11

Blue = Top Pro and Am for each Region.
Red = Current Top Third.
Green = Automatic Tournament Qualifier.
Orange = Friz Rocker.

Open
1 Ron Convers 1229
2 Crispin Carrasco 1010
3 Phil Jackson 927
4 Austin Streit 914
5 Brandon Nelson 877
6 Chris Smith 834
7 Tracy Ruder 786
8 Ben Wiggins 759
9 Bo Carrasco 667
10 Joe Hesting 568
11 Brendan Hickman 524
12 Ronnie Unruh 489
13 Nate Martin 482
14 Ben Maass 320
15 Shan Mann 295
16 Chris Jones 292
17 Jeff Ring 288
18 Jeremy Rusco 268
19 Leo Deprato 245
20 Eric McCabe 219
21 Scott Reek 177
22 Michael Schoenhofer 107
23 Nils Nordgren 37
24 Bren Nordgren 10
.
Masters
1 Jared Kintzel 1030
2 Curtis Broadhurst 914
3 Randy Brown 784
4 Darren Bottom 542
5 Don Mordecai 431
6 Mike Speer 381
7 Danny Knox 367
8 Tom Vierthaler 342
9 Brandon Mace 331
10 Iqbal Jehan 256
11 Richard Holmgren 200
12 Jackie Massell 192
13 Mark Salada 187
14 Gary Harvey 163
15 Hal Kurz 0
16 Kyle Klinger 0
.
Grandmasters
1 Dennis Vahsholtz 259
2 Buddy Kassner 230
3 Kevin Rorabaugh 225
4 Harvey Barger 145
5 Terry Burley 143
6 Dave Richardson 120
7 Bill Paulson 109
8 Bruce Hudson 101
.
Advanced Am.
1 J.D. Wyatt 586
2 Jason Adkins 537
3 Jeff Vest 506
4 Scott Haynes 480
5 Casey Fluty 457
6 Brandon Tull 439
7 Phil Schmidt 419
8 Jason Snodgrass 376
9 Cort Hughes 347
10 Tyler Patzner 328
11 Steven Deere 317
12 Adam Mosher 306
13 Andy Lyne 207
14 Seth Toepfer 105
15 Kevin Lambdin 49
16 Tom Graham 3
17 Dan Decker 0
18 Adam Searle 0
19 Trent Martin 0
.
Amateur
1 Don Zimmerman 296
2 Loyd Majors 229
3 Taylor Camp 201
4 Jeremy Kindy 196
5 Branden Rusk 182
6 Russ Trice 165
7 Kevin Elrod 132
8 Kyle Kuhn 127
9 Jason Childre 121
10 Jacob Rothweiler 120
11 Kent Lockhart 115
12 James Fawcett 112
13 Tyler Smith 111
14 Caleb Campbell 99
15 Arty Hicks 97
16 Chris Tyler 94
17 Scott Carpenter 63
18 Jeff Updegrove 70
19 Tony Blair 68
20 Damen Workentin 53
21 Kurtis Meier 45
22 John Mosher 35
23 Mark Kewley 25
24 Bryan Grossbach 25
25 Rick Petrie 20
26 Harry Shimp 18
27 Adam Bleything 14
28 Vince Naccarato 12
29 Scott Donaldson 26
30 Eric Frayley 3
31 Jerry Powell 0
32 Nathan Smiley 0
33 Kyle McCready 0
34 Lars Nordgren 0
.
Am. Masters
1 Greg Larmer 300
2 Tom Osborn 287
3 Dale Bare 177
4 Bob Decker 171
5 Tom Thompson 164
6 Don Moore 22
.
Women
1 Mel Snodgrass 79
2 Robin Reimer 74
3 Tracy Johnson 17
.
Junior
1 Nicklaus Unruh 42
2 Cameron Unruh 36
.
112 members