Rule Question

[Austin]

What do you think about rule 804.03G(2)? Should we really hand out strokes for mathematical errors? I have heard of two tournaments in a row where this has cost a player money and some points on their round rating. Coda in Wichita (you all know about this) and someone was telling me Paul McBeth miss totaled his score at Blue Valley. If it is true Paul goes from a tie for third to a tie for sixth with the penalty.

Rule 804.03G
G. After the scorecard is turned in, the total score as recorded shall stand with no appeal, except for the following circumstances:
(1) Penalty throws may be assessed at whatever time the infraction is discovered until the director declares the tournament officially over or all awards have been distributed.
(2) If it is determined that the total score was incorrectly recorded, either by an error on a hole score or by an error in totaling the hole scores, including omission of the total score, the director shall add two penalty throws to the correct total score. These penalty throws are not added when the TD (or an official designated by the TD, such as a course director) corrects a player’s score for other infractions determined after this player had turned in an otherwise correct scorecard.

Maybe I am missing something, but what is the value of this rule?

[Schoen-hopper]

In professional golf, it is Disqualification if your score is added up to less than you shot. If your score is added higher than actual, you get whatever you added it up to.

As far as the value of the rule, I see a couple of things...

The score is, of course, a critical part of the game. The (correct) score has got to be considered of highest importance to the player. This rule puts the responsibility on the player, where it should be, for turning in a correct score.

I know some people have a real hard time with this. I don't think there is an excuse though. I lose because of putting, someone else driving accuracy... If the weak part of your game is adding, that's what you should work on.

The bad things I see about this rule are...

It isn't enforced equally. Some TD's hand back the cards and ask the players to correct them. This is espescially unfair when some people get this treatment and others are out to lunch and get stroked. Best bet is to follow the rules.

I also don't like it that other players get to record your score during the round. In golf, everyone keeps their own card. It should be easy enough to total the round scores when finished, but if there is a hole score error, it can be tough to detect at the end. That's why it is so important for players to periodically check their scorecard to make sure it is right. I know this doesn't really happen.

[scarpfish]

I also don't like it that other players get to record your score during the round.

Me neither. Twice this year, I've had to confront the scorecard keeper about hole scores recorded higher than what they should have been. Somehow my lone '2' the Doo-Dah magically turned into a '4'. In both cases, the strokes that would have been wrongfully added would have cost me a position. I mean, I have no way of proving these acts were intentional, but you wonder, and wonder how common this sort of thing is.

If I had my way, everyone would record everyone's score on unofficial scorecards. This way you have 3-5 records of what happened and it would be easier to correct discrepancies, and discourage pencil whippers. At the end of the round, everyone gathers around, makes sure the records are in agreement and the scores would then be transferred to an official card which is then handed in.

Probably more trouble than its worth, but it would take care of these accidental miscalculations, not to mention the blatent cheating, (well assuming the whole card isn't in on it).

[Schoen-hopper]

Makes sense.

[mrsenortyler]

I think it's kind goofy too. Of course, we should be responsible and tally our scores, but if you forget, you get penalized. By not adding your score, it's not like you were being dishonest, and the scorecards are checked by the staff anyway, so it doesn't really add that much time.

[Anita]

You should be stroked for mis-adding your card. The score IS the deciding factor in a tournament. Before you hand it in you can add it up as many times as you want. You can have someone else look it over. Carry a calculator in your bag if you are math challenged.

I have been known to just correct recreational and junior cards in the Cornhusker State Games. Most of these players are not PDGA tournament entrants and this is their only disc golf tournament.

Any PDGA division (intermediates and the various advanced divisions) you better add them right because I have penalized mis-adds. It's part of the game to add your card, and if you are a serious disc golfer, you need to add your card and know the rules.

I bet the two guys you mentioned will never mis-add a card ever again.

[mrsenortyler]

Sure it's always nice to win a tournament, or beat a certain player, but who wants to beat others at disc golf just because they can't add properly all the time?

[nastyNate]

it doesn't matter if you add your score wrong, dont add your score at all, play from the wrong tee, or any other rules violation that results in a penalty. without rules you have chaos. it is a necessity. Jake was penalized also in that tourney. without that penalty, would we be making such a big deal about Coda not tying for second? check your own card. double check it. check your groups cards. then turn them in. what is so unfair about that?

[Ruder]

I don't believe I've ever turned in an incorrect scorecard - maybe once a longg time ago. But I have a habit of adding my card up 6 or 7, 8 times to make sure its correct - in addition I always hand it off to multiple people in my group to see if they caught something I didn't or if they have any discrepancies.

[Sandman]

I don't believe I've ever turned in an incorrect scorecard

Maybe not, but how many times have you been late for teeoff???

[Ruder]

Slightly less times than I've been late for work.

You should hear the new story from Colorado about how I about missed my teetime. Its an instant classic.

[carlbren21]

If the weak part of your game is adding, that's what you should work on.

WORD! I think they have GED classes for just that type of training!

Mike discussed the ball golf relation to this rule and I'd like to add....

In every competitive golf tourney I've played in (100s), regardless of it being junior golf, high school, college, or semi-pro, you were given your own card with your name on it at check in. When getting to the proper tee, you pass your card to someone else in the group and take someone elses card. You keep their score and can also keep your own score on the same card. Some poeple didn't do this, but it was STRONGLY recommended. At the end of the round, you cross check the scores you have recorded for yourself against the scores the other player recorded. Resolve all/any issues that come up before heading back to the clubhouse. This method worked, and gave people NO excuse. There were times that people didn't record their own score and couldn't really present an argument, unless they could walk you through the hole shot-by-shot, at the end of the round. Very rarely did you have any issues...

Bottom line is, regardless of who is keeping your score at any time, you are responsible for the score that is handed in. The system isn't broke.

CHECK YOURSELF

[mrsenortyler]

I completely agree, you should be responsible for your scores and check them yourself. But if you forget and leave the total blank, what's it matter? It's not like you are trying to gain an advantage over other players.

[nastyNate]

what the hell....just leave it for the TD to do. it's not like they do anything anyway

[Schoen-hopper]

When you take the responsibility off the player it opens the door for everything else.

Missing a couple hole scores here....

Can't read this card....

What do all these dots mean....

4 under. Par is 72 right?...

You name it.